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Category talk:Candidates for deletion
Untitled Please use this page to discuss pages that have been labelled for deletion. Wrist Armour This matter is resolved I'd like to put up a vote for this, since this can be a precedent for similar pages. The question is: Should we delete pages that are just a compilation of several items already covered by a category? All users are encouraged to vote. Scarbrowtalk 15:27, November 15, 2009 (UTC) : I'll say yes for doing away with those pages. I just want to also mention that certain pages that seem to fall in that category like Misc Items are in the menu bar on the left. If the pages are deleted, will the links on the menu bar need to be fixed accordingly? I noticed an "Edit Menu" function, but I'm hesitant to mess around with it. --Wetheril(talk) 15:50, November 15, 2009 (UTC) :: Yes, the menu would have to be updated, and yes, the menu is editable for admins. Try it a bit, it's mostly harmless. Scarbrowtalk 16:25, November 15, 2009 (UTC) : I agree, such pages should be deleted. The old wiki didn't have categories, so compilation pages like Wrist Armour (and pretty much everything under "Classic Manual Lists" on the side menu) were a valiant attempt to manually create the equivalent functionality. And thanks to Wetheril for posting a notice about this vote on the forum, or I probably would not have known about it. — Young Ned (talk) 09:20, November 18, 2009 (UTC) :: I honestly don't really know what you're talking about. But, if Scarbrow, Wetheril, and YN think it's a good idea, then I guess I'll say yes. Oh, and ditto about what YN said about not seeing it if not for Wetheril :). --Thingirl 16:13, November 18, 2009 (UTC) ::: I vote yes as well, and further suggest that even compilation pages without categories be converted to categories/subcategories. Of course, that's implied by the item you've brought to the floor. But this has been one of the things that was nagging me. (I too saw this on the forum, thanks wetheril) --Hastifertalk 18:00, November 18, 2009 (UTC) ::: I'll say yes, and ask, is there a hierarchical site map of the wiki, as in categories, sections, ect? I have never done wiki editing before, but have done a fair amount of web design using CMS, and it seems like this is very similar. I actually probably wouldn't have noticed overlapping pages like this, but I am all for keeping a clean and concise wiki. Jimyred 18:24, November 18, 2009 (UTC) :::: @Jimyred: You can explore from Category:Browse, or check the category tree. Scarbrowtalk 23:57, November 18, 2009 (UTC) On another note, and as I just said on Imbuable Items, maybe we're looking at this issue from a too reduced point of view. An automatically maintained category makes a better work than a manually updated list, for the work of keeping a list, but there is another purpose for the manually generated lists, that is showing the items with the Itemboxes. IMHO they are more colorful, more eye-catching than the categories. In fact, I just discovered some interesting functionality of the CategoryTree extension this wiki has installed. Look at the Items: (the call is ) but as you can see, this view is almost "too much". It can be confusing, specially when you take into account the Tallys items, and the promotional/no longer available ones. Maybe we could rework these pages into manually-maintained lists, categorized into Category:Lists maintained manually for easier maintenance, with only a few selected "important" items on the pages, and both links to the appropriate categories and category trees to show the general picture. That way the maintenance load will be minimum, because adding a new item to the manual lists will become a matter of editor preference, no longer a requisite for completeness. What do you think? Scarbrowtalk 19:32, December 5, 2009 (UTC) : I sort of see what you're saying. It's like the fact that we have a Quest List which is manually maintained through transclusions (and much more user-friendly to browse), despite having a Category:Quests and Category:All Quests. I suppose if the pages function in much the same way the current Quest List functions, that wouldn't be a bad idea. --Wetheril(talk) 21:53, December 5, 2009 (UTC) :: This sounds similar to what Dooli was saying in the forum: "For that reason I wouldn't worry about information appearing in more than one place. I think the question to answer is not 'does this page contain duplicate information?' but 'is this page useful?' (as well as 'how easy is it to find it?')". I tend to agree that it can be useful to have more than one way to find or view the information. I think I'd still like to see the manual lists be as complete as possible, so you don't end up going to the manual list and discovering you now need to go to the category for completeness, but I'd be okay with incomplete manual lists as long as they're clearly marked as incomplete. — Young Ned (talk) 13:06, December 6, 2009 (UTC) ::: I agree with Young Ned. I, however, am no expert on these matters and I am only trying to learn as I go along. But as long as the information presented is accurate and helpful I don't believe it matters if it is accessable more than one way. --R_acey1(Talk) :::: My vote is yes. The "classic manual lists" either duplicate existing item categories, or list items obtained from specific quests/events. For the first point, there doesn't seem to be much use of duplicating an existing category, except for the ability for using itemboxes, which I will discuss later. For the second point, as long as a page exists for the quest/event and it has the appropriate Items category, then these "manual lists" can be (very) easily maintained within the quest/event page itself; i.e. no need for a separate items list for quest/event items. :::: I think removing the manual lists and ensuring that quest/event pages list its items as itemboxes along with being properly categorized will fulfill the need for both organizing all items and allowing users to find what they need. (I've made a change to How to document Items and Quests to indicate this generally useful guideline.) :::: To go further, there should probably be a new Items category for the specific purpose of listing quests (events) that contain item sets. Something like "Items:Set items from quests". The sidebar "Lists>Items" would then have 1 link to this category to replace the "classic manual lists". EDIT: Noticed that there are some item categories related to quests. These should probably be used instead. :::: As for a list of itemboxes in addition to an existing category, it would be too arbitrary precisely because as Scarbrow says, it'd be up to an editor to create/add to a list. My opinion is that it'd be confusing, incomplete and not very useful to a user. K!ZeRotalk 19:24, December 10, 2009 (UTC) ::::: Your idea is an interesting one, and I can see what your saying, but I'd like to challenge your last point with an example: if somebody wanted to make a comparison and find out what the strongest sword in the game is, and looks at Category:Swords. This category is HUGE--it's got 223 items, and you have nothing to go by from looking at that listing except just a list of names. Now it would be pointless to transclude all 233 items onto a manual list, but if noteworthy swords (by editor's choice) were transcluded on a page with a link to the category as well, just in case somebody wanted to see a complete listing, it might be easier for a user looking for that kind of information to find what they're looking for. ::::: I do like the idea of having a category for set items though, and I have mentioned having that in particular for limited-time Tallys item sets. --Wetheril(talk) 10:09, December 11, 2009 (UTC) indentation I've added two new templates, and , to mark the articles as discussed. At this point of the discussion, I think the best ideas (IMHO) are: * Folding Items from a Quest into the Quest page * Assuming manual lists are different from automated ones. The automated ones are assumed to be complete, the manual ones not. * A manual compilation, since it does a worse job than a Category in making a list (even worse considering the Categorytree view), should not be used as a list. Instead, manual compilations should be used to show, highlight and compare notable items. And if a manual list is used to create a list, should be marked as such manually maintained one. Scarbrowtalk 21:37, December 11, 2009 (UTC) : Sounds good. I think this covers the key points very well, and nice job on the templates. --Wetheril(talk) 23:25, December 11, 2009 (UTC) : I think it's done. This matter is then resolved. Scarbrowtalk 18:55, January 2, 2010 (UTC)